Re: [MLUG - DISCUSSION] Debunking 9/11 Debunking: An Answer to Popular Mechanics and Other Defenders of the Official Conspiracy Theory

["Vern Green" <EMAIL:PROTECTED>]

Waco was a tragedy, for all involved. There is plenty of blame to go around.

 

My biggest issue with the Waco incident was when they brought in the National Guard to act as a police force. This action should be against the law. There is the posse commentates act that should have disallowed the National Guard from being used, however that law has some holes in it. Interestingly enough, despite the tragedy, the holes have never been fixed in the act.

 

While I have dismissed the entire governmental takeover part of the conspiracy, I still believe that the ATF and FBI conspired to cover-up evidence in the matter. It is clear that the ATF was at the center of a fight to justify their existence and that fight played no small part in their actions at Waco.

 

You see this is where the truth is, the loons of which I was one, take it an extra step. The same is true with September 11th. The government could have done more to protect against these attacks, I agree. However, one also has to recognize that the spirit of the country before these attacks would have created even more criticism against Bush had he acted the way he should have.

 

Imagine that Bush had acted on Clark's intelligence before the attacks. Imagine that an executive order came down where every person boarding an airplane would be searched, that you would have to take off your shoes for inspection. The lines we have to go through now to get on a plane. Imagine if all that was put into place before the attacks? Then tell me, considering the weakness of the president because of the way the 2000 election went down, tell me that he could have survived the citizenry whiplash?

 

I am confused everytime I hear some left wing lunatic say that Bush should have done more to avoid the attacks? What should he have done? Hindsite is 20/20, it is easy to play arm chair quarterback and look through mounds of information and say this is what we should have done, but seriously, who would have accepted those actions before the attacks?

 

Even now, as Bush is using his wiretapping general order to track potential terrorists in this country, there are those who attack him for it. Interestingly enough, his wiretaps are working, they are getting evidence that is keeping terrorist attacks from occurring in America, and yet the lefties still fight this at every opportunity. There is a lot of lipservice paid to civil rights, but little talk is made of responsibility.

 

History has proven that if Bush had not implemented those taps, and we did have another attack, that the left wing loons in this country would have been attacking him for not doing more.

 

You can say what you want to about Bush and his policies, but there is one thing that is clear. Bush's policies on the war on terror have kept this country safe. The actions recently in England drive home the fact that there are still those out there that want to kill those of us in the west. The fact that the biggest prize of all, the United States, has not been attacked again since September 11th speaks volumes about the administrations attempts to keep America safe.

 

On 7/8/07, Stephen Montgomery-Smith <EMAIL:PROTECTED> wrote:

Mike Miller wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Jul 2007, Vern Green wrote:
>
>> I know the type, I got roped into the cover up and conspiracy theories
>> of what happened in Waco under Clinton's administration. I read books,
>> bought video tapes, everything these nut jobs are doing and grasped
>> every little piece of data that could be twisted to prove the point.
>> Despite all of this research, all of the understanding about what
>> happened, in the end there was no vast conspiracy of governmental
>> takeover or cover-up. It was a simple case of human's doing what they
>> do best, making mistakes.
>>
>> The very same arguments that these people are making about the WTC
>> collapses are the same arguments made by those who thought Waco was a
>> conspiracy. There are tons of data about seismic readings about when
>> the Oklahoma City building collapsed, about how the bomb that McVie
>> set off could not have been poweful enough to bring that building
>> down. I see the sames things coming from these loons, the only
>> difference now? It was right wing crazies from the Waco conspiracy,
>> now it is left wing crazies with the WTC.
>
>
> I never believed that Bush/Cheney were involved in a conspiracy with the
> hijackers.  That seems impossible to me.  It seems even more impossible
> that there were no hijackings or that no planes hit the WTC - some of
> these nuts actually say that!  But I do think Bush/Cheney didn't do
> enough to prevent the attacks and afterward the used them to empower
> themselves massively and to start a war that was irrelevant to 9/11.
>
> I don't see Clinton using events to empower himself, creating new
> Departments or new laws to give more power to the President, or anything
> remotely like that following Waco or any other event.  This is what
> makes 9/11 special.  The lying and secrecy coming from the White House
> has also been pretty extraordinary with the Libby case being the most
> recent example of very bad behavior on the part of Bush/Cheney.  That
> kind of nonsense adds fuel to the fire of the conspiracy nuts.  I think
> there is plenty of real conspiring and illegal activity going on in the
> White House but I don't think Bush/Cheney would plan to attack our
> country!  Why not? Because they know they'd get caught in the end.

I think it is unfair to compare Bush's reaction to 9/11 with Clinton's
reaction to Waco.  I think a better comparison is with Roosevelt's
reaction to Pearl Harbor.  Part of the problem is that America was
essentially divided from the get go - one half wanted to react like we
did in 1941, and the other half wanted to move on.

I should add that I sided with Clinton and Janet Reno right from the
beginning over the Waco affair.  As far as I am concerned, the whole
blame for the incident belongs to David Koresh.  Perhaps the FBI and ATF
mishandled aspects of the operation, but they were honest mistakes, and
it was a difficult situation with which they had little experience.

Stephen

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-- 
Thanks
F Vernon Green 
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