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You seem to fail to remember that many countries (and states in the
US) have enacted similar programs by way of a VAT (value added tax) to
great success. His idea is not unrealistic as it's simply an
application of a proven method to our own situation. Further, I kind of
dropped the Forbes book in there for name recognition as I've always
found him to be someone respected by others... not yourselves
apparently. I checked it out from the library along with the Boortz
book but haven't actually gotten the chance to read it yet.
If the Forbes book is really as you describe than I don't support his
arguments. An implementation where one could choose to participate or
not is absolutely not the idea presented in the Boortz book (which I
have read). Every product purchased anywhere (though I like the WIC
exception) would be taxed at the time of sale... though I suppose you
could do something like they do in Ireland where tourists can save their
VAT receipts and when leaving get a refund... but the goal here is not
just to simplify and change, but to abolish the IRS.
Neither of you have mentioned one of the greatest attractions the
fair-tax provides.... No DOUBLE TAXATION or triple or whatever. When a
_new_ item is purchased it is taxed. When it is resold ( a car is a
great example), that sale is not taxed a second time. How stupid is it
that we have to keep paying taxes over and over on an item that's
already been taxed? A lot of other double taxations would very likely
be eliminated like the asinine joke that is estate death taxes. Who in
the hell gave the government the right to do something so stupid.
Everything in one's estate has already been taxed out the wazoo. What
in the world gives them the right to tax it again when ownership changes
hands where there is no cash transaction. Really.. I ask you. This is
stupid.
So is going into a certain city in a certain state and paying a
different sales-tax depending on municipal, county, state, and federal
taxes. In the fair tax plan there is no 'sales-tax' that is added on to
the sticker price. The 23% tax is included in the price of every
commodity sold. Right there you end decades of moronic nightmare with
stores having to 'classify' different items that are taxed differently
and then having to send that money in. In fact, if the tax is only
placed on the components that go to manufacture say, a stereo, then the
taxes have already been paid and the retailer doesn't even have to worry
about holding that money back and sending it in and worrying that they
might get investigated for sales-tax fraud if they forgot to cross their
eyes and dot their Tees. :)
I love it. What's not to love.... It takes care of those who are
impoverished in a reasonable way. It stops punishing those who are
smart and creative and make the money they have earned through their
achievements. The government can't keep pulling money out of items that
are sold over and over. The government can't just take a percentage of
your inheritance as punishment for you dying. You and businesses are
basically freed of any burden to hassle with taxes, and believe it or
not the government actually gains revenue from it. There are so many
more benefits, but these are good ones to mention.
Btw.. it's not just H&R Block and CPAs and lawyers who are making a
killing every year around tax-time. It's also the pharmaceutical
companies and psychiatrists and physicians who patch people up who
become over distraught over dealing with this crap. I tell you, I know
that I myself have a huge painful knot in my stomach even when my taxes
are easy... Terrified that my dumb-ass government is going to choose me
at RANDOM and audit me, or that I'll make some mistake and have
committed a state or federal offense. I know a lot of people who just
have to retire from life at tax time because they are busy organizing
receipts and so stressed out over this crap that they can't enjoy their
normal everyday activities.
Mike Miller wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, Jonathan King wrote:
On 1/3/07, Christian M. Cepel <EMAIL:PROTECTED> wrote:
Here's my argument:
http://www.amazon.com/Flat-Tax-Revolution-Postcard-Abolish/dp/0895260409/sr=8-1/qid=1167861362/ref=sr_1_1/102-3039159-8181723?ie=UTF8&s=books
and
http://www.amazon.com/Fair-Tax-Book-Saying-Goodbye/dp/0060875496/sr=8-2/qid=1167861414/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/102-3039159-8181723?ie=UTF8&s=books
Both are excellent.
Neither involve an actual economist. In all seriousness, if your
strongest arguments for a flat tax depend on a political hack
(Forbes) and somebody like Neal Boortz, then I really do have better
things to do with my time. Call me an elitist, but I tend to listen
to economists about things that are economics (and to physicists
about physics, etc.)
In any case, here's a review of the one book that I think mentions
Forbes, too.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/13/books/review/13slemrod.html?ei=5088&en=adb65ce66e79b77f&ex=1289538000&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=print
First, I agree thoroughly with Jon on the issue of expertise. Why
expend effort reading the words of hacks who are only trying to
manipulate your vote? For the same amount of effort you could learn
something fundamental about economic principles, or whatever you want
to learn.
I think everyone wants simplification of the tax code and loophole
reduction. This flat tax idea is wacko. Even Forbes doesn't really
support it (saying he would allow people to choose whether they pay
flat tax or not). The Boortz idea seems quite bizarre and
infeasible. I have to wonder why he bothered to write an entire book
about it.
Both of these twisted plans are designed to increase the tax burden on
the middle and working classes and reduce the burden on the very
wealthy. In my view, the very wealth are, well, wealthy, and they
don't need a special new tax code to make their lives better.
Reducing the total tax burden seems like a good idea, but only *after*
you have reduced spending. The plan for Reagan and Bush I&II
administrations has been to massively increase defense spending and to
either reduce tax rates or hold them down, thus increasing the deficit
enormously. This merely shifts the tax burden to the future. Why do
people like that? It is reckless and wasteful. Wake up.
Finally, I strongly disagree with the claim that reducing taxes on the
wealthy somehow causes them to work harder to make life better for the
rest of us. How does that happen? Is there evidence for this?
Strangely, this seemingly untested theory is the basis for all of
these plans to increase the wealth of the wealthy while reducing the
wealth of the middle and working classes. If you want to help people,
how about reducing their taxes? It's easy to see who
multi-millionaire Forbes wants to help, and it ain't me.
Mike
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Christian M. Cepel - Thistledowne Productions - http://thistledowne.org
Computer Support Specialist, Sr. - University of Missouri - Columbia
College of Education - School of Info Science & Learning Technologies
VRCbd, KidTools & StrategyTools Support Systems Projects, and Truman,
Library Whistlestop Project - Web Design & Programming - 573.999.2370
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