Re: [MLUG - DISCUSSION] [POLITICS](and SCIENCE) NASA Plans Lunar Outpost

["Vern Green" <EMAIL:PROTECTED>]

The main problem with this is that unfortunately the US has turned into the world's police force. Without the US who keeps North Korea in check for instance? You could argue that even we are not doing it, but face it, there is still an arms race of sorts and someone will always have to be the big dog until which time the world population can put aside their differences and work together. I don't see this evenly remotely possible in at least 100 years, so we are stuck with one country or another being a problem that requires a military superpower.

 

You mention getting those powerful corporations under control? Do you think it was GE that started the war in Iraq now? Surely you are not trying to draw that conclusion just because Lockheed, Boeing, GE, or McDonnel Douglas builds the weapons we use.

 

The other thing. Space flight will never be economically feasible until there is a commercial reason to be out there. You might promote scientific exploration, but exploration for scientific purposes where the Government provides the funding will result in the very thing that Jonathan mentions. The fact is with US union laws, a manned space craft will cost 4 - 5 time as much as one that is built by the civilian industry. When there becomes a viable commercial application, the capitalist machine gets moving and the cost goes down.

 

Commercial industry needs a reason to go into space, and right now the reason is mainly just for providing high-priced joyrides in weightlessness.

 

On 12/5/06, Mike Miller <EMAIL:PROTECTED> wrote:

On Tue, 5 Dec 2006, Jonathan King wrote:

> On 12/5/06, Mike Miller < EMAIL:PROTECTED> wrote:
>
>> I'm surprised that they can mine hydrogen and oxygen from the lunar
>> surface.  I hadn't heard that before.  Some of you will remember that
>> Carl Sagan was an advocate for manned missions to Mars.  He was also an
>> opponent of continued nuclear weapons proliferation.  He knew that you
>> could only stop making more unneeded nuclear weapons if you had a way
>> to intervene in the military-industrial-congressional complex.
>
> So that explains why he was constantly proposing that incredibly stupid,
> counter-productive and complete-waste-of-time manned space program
> stuff. I must have gotten hundreds of fund-raising letters from his
> dorky space exploration foundation thing.
>
> Obviously, we have to find a better way to deal with this. Our society
> will quite literally go away if we keep wasting tremendous amounts of
> time and money on absolutely useless ventures like manned bases on Mars.
> Given enough time, money, and stupidity, I'm sure we could get there,
> find out that the getting there was almost completely useless, and then
> turn around to find that we had been reduced to being the 23rd most
> powerful nation on our own planet. I'm being slightly facetious here,
> but having a manned space program is almost as stupid as fighting two
> land wars in Asia.


I agree with your main point, but how do we begin to crack the
military-industrial-congressional complex?  That is **massive** entrenched
power.  It can be defeated, or diverted, in time, but we need a strategy.
What is a good strategy?

I would say that you are wrong about manned space flight and wars in Asia
only because such wars kill many thousands of good people and manned space
flights will only kill a few dozen people.  The same money is being spent
either way, so I think it is wise to strongly favor wasteful scientific
explorations instead of systems that promote warfare and mass murder
(while wasting the same amount of money).  Just pay GE to build space
ships instead of smart bombs and pay Halliburton to build space stations
on the moon instead of rebuilding what the GE smart bombs blew up.  Until
you have another way to get these powerful corporations under control, the
NASA approach will help.

Mike

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-- 
Thanks
F Vernon Green 
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