Re: [MLUG - DISCUSSION] [RELIGION] evolution report

[Rick <EMAIL:PROTECTED>]

Stephen Montgomery-Smith wrote:
> Actually I am going to (a) recant from what I said and (b) bite.
>
> It is almost 20 years ago that I became a Christian.  I think it would 
> be unfair to characterize my reasons as just "feeling good," but 
> certainly that played a large part of the experience.  But it also 
> included seeing a logical beauty and fulfillment in the Bible.

While I see some excellent sentiments expressed in the Bible, I find 
very little logical deduction. For teaching morals, I think it's a great 
resource, but for teaching critical thinking, I believe we should stick 
to the science and math books.

> Nevertheless, while I could not reject the experience, it did leave a 
> great deal of unanswered questions, and the questions that you and Rick 
> bring up are extremely valid questions that certainly do deserve to not 
> be swept under the rug.  And I think that I differed from many of my 
> Christian peers in that I wasn't willing to accept easy answers (not 
> that I criticise them, just that I am made differently - we all have our 
> own issues, and for them it is different).

I'll not speak for Mike here, but my issues with religion lay directly 
along these lines. These unanswered questions that you're referring to 
exist whether one is theistic or not. The problem is that religion tends 
to answer them with "It's God's will, and we do not understand his 
ways". From my perspective, that's the antithesis of a "search for 
truth". In this, I find many of the people on this list that do engage 
in this debate to be very different than your average Christian (the 
group, not the person =)

> Mike, if you had not provoked me (and I mean the word "provoke" in the 
> nicest way), I think that I would not contribute so many Christian 
> themed messages to this mailing list.  But I am glad that you have 
> provoked me, because it has given me opportunity to share the partial 
> answers to these questions that I have obtained so far.  (And as I have 
> said elsewhere, these hard questions have been considered by theologians 
> for millenia, not with complete success.)  It helps me get my ideas in 
> order, and probably as a result I will see more of the weaknesses in my 
> answers and sharpen or modify them accordingly.

Very much the same reason I like these debates.

> Let me also say to Mike and Rick - I think it very likely that you are 
> part of the "chosen" and that one day God will meet with you in a way 
> that you cannot deny.  The reason I think that is that most people I 
> discuss religion with simply change the subject, whereas with you two, 
> you seem unable to drop the subject, but keep bringing it up again.  I 
> see this as a very positive sign.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I'll not be holding my breath on this 
one =)

Part of the reason that I can't ever seem to skip these threads is very 
much the same as the sentiment expressed by one of my coworkers one day 
at lunch (where we were discussing the same topic). I mentioned that I 
liked debating the topic with him because I did not feel that he was 
trying to convert me, to which he responded, "Oh, then I'm not doing a 
very good job."

But, that appears to be the key to having a reasonable discussion versus 
a rant fest.

> You should also understand that I am in no way superior to you just 
> because God has extended his grace to me.  I am just as deserving of the 
> fate of hell as anyone else.  God saved me, not because I deserved it, 
> but because he loved me.  I do not doubt that he loves you guys equally.
>
> Best Stephen

I appreciate the sentiment, especially because I'm sure it's heartfelt, 
but will respectfully retain my atheism.

If God shows up, by all means, let me know. =)

Rick
--
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Mortality sucks...

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