RE: [MLUG - DISCUSSION] Hybrid vehicles/alternative fuels

["Spurling, Shannon" <EMAIL:PROTECTED>]

I think you are a little confused. Hybrid's are not exclusively
electrically powered. They are mainly gas with a generator/battery
system to store wasted power and return it into the system. Up side is
that it gets more efficiency out of the system. Down side is that it's
still a gas vehicle. The batteries are a lot less of a burden than an
electric, maybe four common lead acid batteries as compared to a large
bank of exotic batteries for an electric.

As I understand, there are two systems. One is Toyota's, where they have
the motor/generator between the transmission and engine where the
flywheel normally is. The other is what Honda and Ford use, where the
motor/generator is connected to the front of the engine like an
alternator. The transmissions get more efficient, and they use a
smaller, better designed gas power plant. You never externally charge
the batteries in it unless you are storing it for a long time or are
having problems.

Bio-diesel is okay, but it's still diesel, and you're looking at
something similar with the switch grass ethanol. They still require some
toxic chemicals to condition the fuel, and there are handling and
delivery issues because it's not as refined as diesel or gasoline. With
Ethanol, you're looking at replacing the fuel delivery system because
it's corrosive. With Bio-Diesel you're looking at replacing the filter
and the engine has to be a high compression diesel engine in the first
place, and then there is the higher ignition point and the problem with
low temperature flowing/gelling of the fuel. I sometimes wonder if
instead of mixing Ethanol with gasoline, if they could mix ethanol with
bio-diesel and use some conditioning process to produce something less
corrosive and more flow able and combustible completely free of
petroleum. 



Shannon Spurling
WAN Engineer

 

-----Original Message-----
From: EMAIL:PROTECTED
[mailto:EMAIL:PROTECTED] On Behalf Of McIntosh
Jason
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 9:03 AM
To: Discussion MLUG
Subject: [MLUG - DISCUSSION] Hybrid vehicles/alternative fuels

Thought I'd post some thoughts on this real quick after reading some  
of peoples comments on the state of the union speech.

First, people keep talking about Hybrid vehicles like they're a great  
way to save money and overall an excellent investment, and overall  
more environmental friendly.  I had to up a few points, and perhaps  
get some additional input:

The first thing to mention, is regarding hybrids.  What about the  
batteries?  Specifically, what about when the batteries wear out?   
What is the cost to replace them?  What is the cost/environmental  
impact of producing these batteries and recycling them?  Is a hybrid  
really that much more environmental friendly if battery replacement/ 
dumping causes as many problems as an equivalent gas engine over a  
period of time?  Is there any study of the impact in a 5/10 year  
period evaluating ALL the factors?

The other thing to mention is this - the price of producing hybrids  
and electricity is still high, unless you're talking nuclear or  
fusion reactors (fusion of course being only a dream at this point).   
SO, from an environmental standpoint, wouldn't a better system to be  
to produce cleaner burning engines/coal plants?  Or, to look at  
alternate solutions?

Personally, I'm still leaning towards Diesel/Biodiesel as renewable  
fuel sources.  Long term, I'd say hydrogen fuel systems are even  
better as they have far fewer emissions.  As an intermediate step,  
I've seen several things on hydrogen injection systems into diesel  
engines, which though initially expensive, use distilled water to  
give a big boost in performance, reduced emissions, etc. etc.

I talked a bit about one car and the concept here:
http://poetshome.com/mcintoshj/?p=432

to repost some links on diesel/hydrogen systems:
http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/Diesel.html
http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2005/11/hydrogen_boost_.html
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/11/hydrogenenhance.html

Cheers!

Jason


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