Re: [MLUG - DISCUSSION] [RELIGION] creation myths

[Mike Miller <EMAIL:PROTECTED>]

On Fri, 2 Dec 2005, Stephen Montgomery-Smith wrote:

> > I think that people have a natural tendency to believe in ghosts and 
> > spirits.  Does that mean that we should believe in them?  Does it mean 
> > that they really exist?  People also have a tendency to have 
> > hallucinations.  Does that mean it is good or that the hallucinations 
> > are real?  I don't think so.
>
> But that is where I would say - how do you know which are real and which 
> are not?

All hallucinations are not real.  All ghosts and spirits are not real. 
How do I know that?  Well, no one really knows that, but I think it's a 
good theory to work from.  Let someone provide evidence for the reality of 
a hallucination or the existence of one or more spirits.  Until I see that 
evidence, I won't believe it.  We've seen a million scams based on ghosts 
and spirits -- all scams, no spirits.


> Your prior answers seem to be in terms of applying the scientific 
> method. But you really only describe the method as the collection of 
> evidence, and seeing what fits, without going into details.  Since 
> brainiacs like Popper seemed to think that this whole process was much 
> less obvious than how you state it, I feel that I am justified in also 
> thinking that the scientific process is not well defined.
>
> I really don't think that you have thought through this issue very much.

We read some Popper and Lakatos in grad school.  I've read a few other 
things.  It is possible to come up with all sorts of difficult and 
elaborate ideas and never really get a final answer.  There are probably 
thousands of people publishing all the time on philosophy of science 
issues.  What is stopping them from figuring it all out?  Well, I think 
there is no perfect solution and science is a complicated process that 
doesn't work by some perfect rules.  This allows philosophers to go on and 
on making money (publishing and not perishing) forever.

    "There is nothing so ridiculous but some philosopher has said it."
     --Marcus Tullius Cicero (106 B.C. - 43 B.C.)

It's been going on for a really long time!  Here's an example of how 
philosophers waste time.  They will argue about this issue:

   Suppose someone were to claim that all crows are black.  If this claim
   is true, then we can also conclude, by modus tollens, that all things
   that are not black are not crows.  Then isn't it true that my
   observation that my phone is white provides a bit of evidence for the
   theory that all crows are black?

I can't remember who came up with that one, but my answer to the final 
question is "yes," but I would add "so what?" and "isn't this a lot of 
pointless mental exercising?"


> (Probably my ideas on epistomology are not mainstream, but most people I 
> know with a philosophical bent realise that it is not so easy as you 
> make it out to be.  As I have said, I think that how we know what we 
> know is ultimately not a precise set of rules that we follow, but rather 
> are based on an inner sense of what epistomological processes are valid 
> and which are not.)

I would say that we don't "know" in an absolute sense.  We are just coping 
with the world by collecting evidence for how things work, then using our 
improved ideas to collect more evidence and so on.  That's almost all I 
have to say except that I could give examples.


> Next, I also prefer to hold ideas which accurately expressed the world I 
> am in.  As Jesus said, "The truth shall set you free."  My experience is 
> that the more accurate information and understanding of the world around 
> me that I have, the better and more fulfilling is my life.
>
> I have worked hard during my years of life to try to discern what 
> reality is and what it is not.  In coming to believe in the Christian 
> God, I have used all my senses, and all my intellect, to come to that 
> conclusion.

I believe you when you say that you are trying your best to get the right 
answer.  I just don't think you've succeeded.

Mike

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