Re: [MLUG - DISCUSSION] [RELIGION] creation myths

[Mike Miller <EMAIL:PROTECTED>]

On Fri, 2 Dec 2005, Stephen Montgomery-Smith wrote:

> > Your method is to simply accept one of the proposed answers as the 
> > truth. I see little merit in that approach.  There are many other 
> > answers that are at least as sensible as yours, yet you reject all 
> > those answers. There is no logical basis for doing that.  You like your 
> > answer, so you're sticking with it.
>
> No.  There is logic and reason behind my choosing Christianity to be the 
> true religion as opposed to the others.  It seems to be reasoning that 
> you do not accept, but it is most certainly not simply an arbitary 
> choice.
>
> We already went through this with the Christianity versus Scientology 
> discussion.

You like Christianity.  You like the stories in the Bible.  Therefore 
the Bible is a true story.


> > > But I don't think that it offers anything like a full explanation for 
> > > the kind of altruism that William Wilberforce or Mother Theresa shows. 
> > > The kind of altrusism that Trivers talks about is that displayed to 
> > > close genetic cousins, or a kind of reciprical back scratching 
> > > activity.
> >
> > One of the ideas is that we are competing with one another to be the 
> > most generous in order to show off our greatness and attract mates.
> >
> > http://octavia.zoology.washington.edu/handicap/handicap_principle.html 
> > http://www.staff.ncl.ac.uk/gilbert.roberts/Roberts1998.pdf
>
> Extremely speculative.

That is an area of developing theory in evolutionary biology.  It is based 
on studies of behaviors seen in a vast range of different species.  Is it 
a definitive answer to your questions?  Of course not.  Is it a better 
answer than "God made them do it?"  I think so!


> > I don't know, but not everyone has this problem of a need for purpose. 
> > Some people are busy enough getting food to eat that they don't think 
> > about it very much.
>
> Well, this is where I am going to go out on a limb, and say that those 
> people (for example you) who think that they are simply happy to live 
> there lives getting food to eat, or being married with kids, are living 
> in self deception.

I'm not saying that hungry people are happy.  I'm saying that they may be 
spending so much time and energy struggling to survive that they never 
kick back and ask "What's it all about?"


> I claim that there are certain universals that govern all human beings. 
> I believe that this need for a sense of purpose really is in you.
>
> Right now, I am guessing that you are not in touch with this part of 
> you. And I am not expecting you to drop everything, and go running after 
> it.  But I predict that one day you will come to a place where you will 
> see this sense of emptiness in your life.  And I hope that at this point 
> you will see that the philosophy that you live by doesn't hold up.
>
> (On the other hand, maybe I am wrong, and maybe you really are built 
> very differently than I am.  But observation alone tells me that most 
> people in this world have the same sense of need of purpose that I have. 
> Anyway, I think it very unlikely that I am wrong.)

I get plenty of meaning and purpose from my family and my work.  I have 
other projects too, like making music and arguing with you.  I think that 
arguing with you about these kinds of things is very important.  I think 
I'm correct on every point on which we disagree, but I know that the 
majority of Americans would agree with you.  One of my goals in life is to 
change that pattern, but to do it in a good way so that we retain the good 
things that people must be taking from religion (there almost has to be 
something good or they wouldn't be doing it! - maybe sense of community, 
purpose, that kind of thing) while removing the bad parts (the zealotry 
about mystical beliefs, animosity toward infidels/heretics, 
closed-mindedness about science, etc.).  I'm not just talking about 
Christianity here.  That gives me purpose.

Mike

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