Re: [MLUG - DISCUSSION] [RELIGION] creation myths

[Stephen Montgomery-Smith <EMAIL:PROTECTED>]

Mike Miller wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Dec 2005, Stephen Montgomery-Smith wrote:
>
> > Mike Miller wrote:
> >
> > > There really is no "purpose" of the sort you have when there is a 
> > > designer.  Evolution works by trial and error and success is defined 
> > > by fitness, which is defined by survival and reproduction.  So we 
> > > were essentially "designed" by eons of selection to be optimized for 
> > > reproduction.  We were therefore designed by natural selection 
> > > processes for the purpose of reproduction.
> >
> >
> > Yes, but then you are basically saying that your answers about 
> > "purpose" were not the answers to the unanswerable questions of Popper.
> >
> > I still say that you are ducking the question by defining it to not be 
> > a proper question.
>
>
> I wouldn't say that questions like "what is the universe here for" are 
> "improper," but I would say that we have no method for verifying that 
> any proposed answer to that question is correct.
>
> Your method is to simply accept one of the proposed answers as the 
> truth. I see little merit in that approach.  There are many other 
> answers that are at least as sensible as yours, yet you reject all those 
> answers. There is no logical basis for doing that.  You like your 
> answer, so you're sticking with it.

No.  There is logic and reason behind my choosing Christianity to be the 
true religion as opposed to the others.  It seems to be reasoning that 
you do not accept, but it is most certainly not simply an arbitary choice.

We already went through this with the Christianity versus Scientology 
discussion.


> > But I don't think that it offers anything like a full explanation for 
> > the kind of altruism that William Wilberforce or Mother Theresa shows. 
> > The kind of altrusism that Trivers talks about is that displayed to 
> > close genetic cousins, or a kind of reciprical back scratching activity.
>
>
> One of the ideas is that we are competing with one another to be the 
> most generous in order to show off our greatness and attract mates.
>
> http://octavia.zoology.washington.edu/handicap/handicap_principle.html
> http://www.staff.ncl.ac.uk/gilbert.roberts/Roberts1998.pdf

Extremely speculative.

> > Why is it evolutionary advantageous to find this supreme pleasure in 
> > being self-sacrificial?  Look at people around you.  Who is truly happy?
>
> Most people seem pretty happy to me.  I think married people with 
> families might be happier on most days than single people living alone.

> > Where does this desire for purpose come from?  And why is it that the 
> > highest personal satisfaction is only achieved when one feels that 
> > ones life really has had a purpose?
>
> I don't know, but not everyone has this problem of a need for purpose. 
> Some people are busy enough getting food to eat that they don't think 
> about it very much.

Well, this is where I am going to go out on a limb, and say that those 
people (for example you) who think that they are simply happy to live 
there lives getting food to eat, or being married with kids, are living 
in self deception.

I claim that there are certain universals that govern all human beings. 
 I believe that this need for a sense of purpose really is in you.

Right now, I am guessing that you are not in touch with this part of 
you.  And I am not expecting you to drop everything, and go running 
after it.  But I predict that one day you will come to a place where you 
will see this sense of emptiness in your life.  And I hope that at this 
point you will see that the philosophy that you live by doesn't hold up.

(On the other hand, maybe I am wrong, and maybe you really are built 
very differently than I am.  But observation alone tells me that most 
people in this world have the same sense of need of purpose that I have. 
 Anyway, I think it very unlikely that I am wrong.)


--

Stephen Montgomery-Smith
EMAIL:PROTECTED
http://www.math.missouri.edu/~stephen

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