RE: [MLUG - DISCUSSION] Famous atheist changes his mind

["Spurling, Shannon" <EMAIL:PROTECTED>]

" You wrote, "In a system things tend toward disorder."  Which is only
true 
in a system with no energy input from outside the system.  The Earth is 
not such a system."

Where I did not say that the system was limited to the earth. That was
your assumed frame of reference. I would presume that the Universe is a
closed system unless you can find holes and prove that there is free
exchange of matter and energy from another universe. Another interesting
thing to note is that our current understanding of thermodynamics is
based on observations made on the earth. This means that even though the
sun provides a lot of energy, there is still a great chemical and atomic
tendency towards disorder, making it even more unlikely that chemicals
could conceivably achieve an order high enough to "Spark" the creation
of life with out some sort of outside influence.

" The energy flowing in from the Sun allows order to be maintained.
When 
the Sun goes out, we're screwed.  ;-)"

Not as long as we have Michael to invent some sort of matter energy
conversion device we can use to power our Dyson Sphere. Then we can
maraud through the universe consuming planets and converting them to
energy to power our massive death stars! ;-)
Hey, check out the Google ads now. Did they get any better? ;-)




Shannon Spurling
WAN Engineer -Specialist

MOREnet, Network Services, Core Network
3212 LeMone Industrial Blvd.
Columbia, MO 65201

Main:(573) 884-7200   Fax:(573)884-6673

EMAIL:PROTECTED
EMAIL:PROTECTED


> What I was saying is that life arising on earth is in direct
opposition 
> to the basic tendency of chemicals to disperse and energy to
dissipate. 
> Once life is established, it's all down hill from there. It takes a 
> highly ordered system to take the disordered energy from the sun, and 
> with much waste, and produce ordered energy to sustain and reproduce.

The energy flowing in from the Sun allows order to be maintained.  When 
the Sun goes out, we're screwed.  ;-)

Mike


> -----Original Message-----
> From: EMAIL:PROTECTED
> [mailto:EMAIL:PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Miller
> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 10:41 AM
> To: MLUG Off-Topic Discussion
> Subject: RE: [MLUG - DISCUSSION] Famous atheist changes his mind
>
> On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Spurling, Shannon wrote:
>
>> I think the basis for rational belief in God can best be described by

>> science it's self. In a system things tend toward disorder. That is a

>> basic law of thermodynamics. What you get is more like localized 
>> regions of some order with greater disorder between that shift and
move 
>> kind of like ripples or waves. Problem with Evolution is that it does

>> not appear to follow the norm. Agreed, the disorder is typically at
the 
>> chemical level or lower, but that is the level where order had to be 
>> established for the creation of DNA based life.
>
>
> You need to read more science books.  The Second Law of Thermodynamics

> is a little different than you think it is.  The Earth is not a closed

> system - energy comes to earth from the Sun.  Read this:
>
> http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/bioentropy.html
>
> Mike
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