[MLUG - DISCUSSION] Re: What the hell is going on at the NewYorkTimes?

[Edward Terry <EMAIL:PROTECTED>]

>>>Issues are real, pronounced things; issues have a palpable effect on 
>>>the country. Voting along moral/value guidelines is not voting on real 
>>>issues.
>>
>>Or to put it another way, the government shouldn't legislate morality. This 
>>makes no sense at all.  All laws are based on either morality or 
>>self-interest.  Laws against murder are a good example.
> 
> 
> I'm sure Ryan didn't mean that.  A law against murder is not just based on 
> the immorality of murder, it is based on the right of the individual not 
> to be murdered.  We have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of 
> happiness, and to take away those rights must be illegal.

Where do such rights come from?  They can't be logically deduced or 
proven.  We believe, based on emotion rather than logic, that people 
should have these rights.  We want the government to legislate morality 
by guaranteeing these rights.

> When Ryan talks about morality, I'm sure he's concerned with issues that 
> don't impinge on the rights of others.  Private, consensual sexual contact 
> between adults should not be legislated.  Here are some things that could 
> be made illegal to satisfy some people's moral requirements:
> 
> possession of erotic photographs/films
> sex before marriage
> extramarital sex
> nonmarital cohabitation
> unmarried opposite-sex couples sharing a hotel room
> oral sex in marital relationships
> masturbation
> 
> Would such laws be OK with you?  Such laws would not help to protect 
> anyone from harm.  On that basis alone, they would be highly questionable. 
> It's not just sex.  There are lots of other 'moral' things that could be 
> legislated.
> 
> Mike

Here's the key question:  Why is it wrong to hurt other people?  There 
is no objective, logical reason.  We take this for granted, but we fail 
to realize that most societies throughout history have not accepted this 
concept.  We accept the principle that it is wrong to hurt other people 
and pass laws to enforce it (thus legislating our moral system), simply 
because we believe it is the right (i.e. moral) thing to do.

Your basic argument seems to be that we should only legislate morality 
which is accepted by the majority of the population.  That's a valid 
argument, but it's not the same as saying we shouldn't legislate 
morality or impose our values on others.

Edward
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