Re: [MLUG - DISCUSSION] Is science a religion?

[Rick Buford <EMAIL:PROTECTED>]

Stephen Montgomery-Smith wrote:

> I was attempting to go toe-to-toe with Mike Miller - he was making the 
> case for science through its success - similarly I was trying to make 
> the case for Christianity.

Do you feel that you succeeded? By what yardstick are we measuring 
success? Religion is prevalent in some from for a huge fraction of the 
world's population, but is that success? By my estimate, science is even 
more widespread.

>>> Now we can see all the wars and atrocities generated by religious 
>>> people.  But really, science has its bad points as well.  For 
>>> example the atomic bomb is definitely a scientific and non-religious 
>>> creation.  The worst atrocities in history were committed by the 
>>> Nazis (which seems to have derived its world view from Darwinism) 
>>> and Communist Russia (which claims to be atheist).  The Spanish 
>>> Inquisition pails in comparison to these.  Another example is the 
>>> French revolution and American revolution, which took place almost 
>>> at the same time - the American freedom fighters were either 
>>> Christians or were strongly motivated by Christianity, whereas the 
>>> French revolution seems to have been more guided by atheistic or 
>>> humanistic values.  The American revolution was comparitively 
>>> attrocity free, and has led to a nation that esteems personal 
>>> freedoms.  The French revolution became a bloodbath and led to the 
>>> tyranical rule of Napolean.
>>
These examples appear so vacuous to me that I'm not sure how to approach 
them. Are you implying that because the American revolution was fought 
by Christians that it was somehow "cleaner", while the French revolution 
was a bloodbath because it was fought by the godless heathens?

> I was not attempting to defend the Spanish Inquisition.  Rather I was 
> wanting to show that man's capacity for committing terrible 
> attrocities is not dependent on religion.  Indeed my personal opinion 
> is that religion (Christianity in particular) has tended to have a 
> restraining effect on attrocities.  I myself would argue that those 
> carrying out the Spanish Inquisition were either bad Christians or 
> deluded Christians - scientists should find this familiar, as there 
> are certainlt bad and deluded scientists (e.g. the Nazi's invokation 
> of Darwinian theories to justify their attrocities is definitely bad 
> science).

Nor is it dependent on science and technology except as a capacity for 
larger scale violence. What do you think would have happened if the 
Church had access to atomic weapons during the Crusades? Personally, I'm 
picturing a bunch of guys in robes sanctifying a large cylindrical 
object. Weapons, while the child of technology, still have to be used by 
people, and what do you know, some of those people behind the trigger 
are Christians.
 In an intellectually enlightened society, I would like to believe peace 
would be the better option. Unfortunately, as long as "those" people 
(different race,religion, color, whatever) are so different that "those 
other" people simply cannot suffer them to exist, violence will always 
be a possibility. Taking the Nazi argument, I'm not sure how you are 
viewing the deaths of thousands of Jewish persons, holders of a 
religious belief, as Darwinism, regardless of what the Nazi propaganda 
spouted to make it more palatable for the masses. Their invocation of 
Darwin to justify the genocide of an entire class of people was idiotic 
then, and is idiotic now.
Those "bad Christians" you're referring to as the ones behind the 
Spanish Inquisition were considered to be the most holy men of their 
time by the "faithful". Yes, at some point, the Pope did try to 
intervene, but only after it was completely clear that the Inquisition 
was --no longer under the Vatican's control--.

Realizing that there is no possibility that we're going to convince each 
other over a linux discussion list, I truly hope that religion provides 
something in your life that makes it a better place.
_______________________________________________
discussion mailing list
EMAIL:PROTECTED
http://mlug.missouri.edu/mailman/listinfo/discussion