RE: [MLUG - DISCUSSION] speaking of apocalyptic horsemen...

[Jonathan King <EMAIL:PROTECTED>]

On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Matthew Ross wrote:

> > YDRC. :-)
> > 
> > http://www.census.gov/hhes/poverty/threshld/thresh02.html
> > 
> > For One person living alone, you're talking about $9359 per year.  For
> > a couple with no kids, it's $12,047.  For a couple with one kid, it's
> > $12,400.  For a family of four, it's $18,244 (which I'm 
> > guessing is what you were really thinking of?)
> 
> That sounds about right, that would be the classic "nuclear family".

The problem being that there aren't nearly as many of those as there
used to be.
 
> > > What is the poverty level for the rest of those countries? Their
> > > poor can't afford food for their children, our poor can't afford the
> > > latest Pokemon game for their children.
> > 
> > $18K for a family of four would be pretty brutal, especially 
> > since you can bet that they are also uninsured.  Running the numbers 
> > for life in Columbia, I think I can see how it would be done, but 
> > you'd be missing more than just Pokemon...although you should have to 
> > starve or freeze unless there were people in the household who had 
> > drug habits.
> 
> that's 1,500 a month before taxes, and if they're below poverty level, I
> think its probably after taxes also.

Why would you think that?  If there's somebody working in the family,
they're losing over $1000 per year off the top to FICA, and they will be
paying MO state taxes too, I'll bet.

> $300 for med insurance, $400 for a low-rent appartment big enough for
> four, $180 for food if you never eat out, $100 for utilities, leaving
> $520 for other things, like car insurance, gasoline, clothing,
> consumables. (by the way, my parents family of 5 spends less than $500
> on consumables a month, and spends rather frivolously by comparison)
> 
> Its not a beverly hills mansion, but its livable. 

Here's how I see it:

    $1500  --to start
  -   $85  --FICA
  -   300  --cheesy health insurance
  -   400  --really cheesy apartment
  -   150  --payment on a really cheesy car
  -   100  --insurance on same (you're young and in a cheesy neighborhood)
  -   200  --food (note that's $1.75 per day per person)
  -   100  --utilities and phone
  -    50  --gas and car expenses
  _______
     $115  (for clothing, entertainment, non-covered medical expenses
            or your deductable, contributions to your IRA, other taxes)

The real problem here is that this only works if NOTHING goes wrong. And
one of those things that can "go wrong" is if both people need to work,
since there's zero here for childcare (or childbirth, for that matter),
nothing for life insurance, nothing for major car repairs, not much of a
hope for having any savings, and nothing for vices of any kind.  And this
only works because we're assuming central Missouri.  Try this in San Diego
at your own peril.

> I have 1500/mo left over after taxes, insurance, etc. I pay $150/mo in
> tithes, and spend about $100/mo on food, fast or otherwise. I pay
> 1,000/mo toward college loans, and I'm in the black every month. Were I
> paying rent, I could just lower my monthly payments and be paid off in
> December instead of April. The US poverty level is a joke.

Are you a family of four?  Do you have childcare expenses?  Why is your
$1500 coming after insurance and taxes?  I find your argument rather
unconvincing.  $1500 per month for a family of four only works if
everything goes well, you have no childcare expenses, and don't go to
school.  Or, if you do without a car.  The year my wife and I were the
very poorest we ever got (3rd year of grad school for me; her last year of
college), the easy choice to make (since we lived in a city) was to do
without the car.

jking

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