RE: [MLUG - DISCUSSION] Fw: Apple computers run on satanism (fwd)

["Spurling, Shannon" <EMAIL:PROTECTED>]

Evolution has nothing to do with the creation of DVD's. :-)
I think that you might want to read the site that was cited earlier as a debunking of the original hoax that started this thread. That guy had a fairly good handle on things. What saddens me more than seeing people like Dr. Dino making un-based jumps in deduction is when actual scientists do it, and base their work on it. Then others base their work on the previous scientists work. Pretty soon the original flawed jump becomes so ingrained in that "Science" that it has been accepted as infallible and unquestionable... Hmmm, starts to sound familiar, eh? They are doing the same thing you have a problem with, aren't they? 
Point is, there is no unified science. A questioning of the age of the earth or if humans evolved or were created is not going to change our understanding of physics and the engineering based on that. We may not even know the true nature of physics, but we explain it the best we can. We should never hold our understanding of it as infallible, that is petty and vain. But that is what biologists are holding to. What would happen if they found fossil evidence that countered every thing they hold dear? Would they proudly display it and be called a heretic and a crank, become discredited? Or would they hide it or destroy it, and try to establish their position in the status quo? You think they would not be discredited? They are held to peer review, and their peers reputations and ego's are built on their acceptance of what that person would be challenging. They make fun of people who follow the heard, but they have formed one of their own. And these academic types are a prideful bunch. Let me tell you.
So, even if Dr Dino were the most meticulous and through person in the world, people would still dismiss any real evidence he came up with as no evidence. That's just the sad nature of people and their pride. I don't think it was the church that persecuted Galileo, I think it was the status quo, in the guise of the church. Just because the church was the point of enforcement at the time, doesn't mean that some other group would not have done the same. It all has to do with people and their traditions, and how they don't want to change them.

Shannon Spurling
WAN Engineer -Specialist

MOREnet, Network Services, Core Network
3212 LeMone Industrial Blvd.
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-----Original Message-----
From: King, Jonathan W. 
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 11:17 AM
To: EMAIL:PROTECTED
Subject: RE: [MLUG - DISCUSSION] Fw: Apple computers run on satanism
(fwd)



On Mon, 1 Jul 2002, Ross, Matt wrote:

> I note they make reference to drdino, I suppose in an small jab at
> http://www.drdino.com/, a Christian scientist website.  While I don't agree
> with the priciple of 'Christian Scientists', I do like some of the things
> "Dr. Dino" puts out there, such as his challenge to evolutionary theory.

There are times when it pays to be delicate, but other times when
you really just have to say what you think about something.  I have
just looked at some of the material in the FAQs at www.drdino.com,
and I have no qualms whatsoever with declaring it to be a steaming
heap of manure.

Really, this kind of thing saddens me.  Groups that set themselves 
up to debunk scientific ideas really do have a responsibility to
understand the ideas they wish to discredit and be intellectually
honest about what those ideas really imply and predict about the 
world.  The ideas, in other words, don't just exist in a vacuum but
gain their power from their use and our ability to understand more
about the world than what we knew before.

Or, let's put it another way.  If there really were a creation
science worth studying, you need to show how it can explain all of
the phenomena we have already (predicted and discovered and)
explained by means of orthodox science.  You should also be able to
make exact statements about where this creation science differs in
its assumptions or laws or calculations from contemporary orthodox
science (and not some cartoonish and highly selected subset of
factoids taken from the scientific literature).

But, hey, I have never seen anybody make a *single* calculation from
some first principles of creation science and have it match observed
reality.  In any way.  And it gets just completly painful when you
have to deal with "young earth" creationists.  Almost nothing in
real science will give them the answers they want in terms of dates,
so they basically have to deny the truth of the entire enterprise.
And then they should have to explain how, if conventional science
has gone so horribly wrong, how scientific ideas have lead to the 
development of miracle devices like rewritable CDs, gene therapy,
magnetic resonance imaging and on and on and on.  And why the only
thing that creation science can produce is tackily packaged DVDs.

And that's the ultimate irony.  To be taken seriously, these folks
need to be able to use their science to calculate an age for the
earth of only 6000 years while simultaneously explaining how their
science can explain the processes involved in the creation of the
DVDs their unscientific ideas are stamped on.  The more difficult
creation for them to explain will be the latter one, of course.

> Interesting reading, even if you don't agree with it.

No, it isn't interesting.  It is merely sad.  If you want 
interesting, give me a physical email address and I'll send you a 
*free* copy of Feynman's QED, a book discussed previously on this
list.  After you see and understand that book, I would be completely
shocked if schlock like the stuff you see on www.drdino.com would
continue to impress you in any way.

jking

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