RE: [MLUG - DISCUSSION] net-enabled microcontrollers for appliances, VCRs, stereos

["Spurling, Shannon" <EMAIL:PROTECTED>]

It's not a PIC, it's a single chip "Web server", but it requires a PIC,
or some other MCU to provide logic and access the information from
memory or the sensors that you put in place. You have to have some sort
of MCU to construct or retrieve the data for the "Web server" chip to
send out to the response. Doesn't make too much sense to me, I'd
integrate the MCU into the chip, but none of the chip makers I've seen
do that. Regardless, the price is much greater than $1.00. and the
manufacturing cost is probably much greater than $1.00, so I don't think
they will be getting that cheap any time soon.

Shannon Spurling
WAN Engineer -Specialist

MOREnet, Network Services, Core Network
3212 LeMone Industrial Blvd.
Columbia, MO 65201

Main:(573) 884-7200   Fax:(573)884-6673

EMAIL:PROTECTED
EMAIL:PROTECTED


-----Original Message-----
From: Michael [mailto:EMAIL:PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 10:09 PM
To: EMAIL:PROTECTED
Subject: RE: [MLUG - DISCUSSION] net-enabled microcontrollers for
appliances, VCRs, stereos


The one I'm thinking of isn't a PIC though I've seen that one too.I
think
that one was on Slashdot. Dammit if I can find the bookmark I'll post
it.
If not then ignore me as a clueless rant sucker if you like. I swear
I've
seen at least two companies selling (and I assume making) web servers
that
ran on one chip and cost just about $1 each. They were very simple
devices
but still interesting. I think they did pretty much only convert data to
TCP packets as suitable from a webserver but umm what else would you
have
an embedded webserver do? ;>

I've seen some pretty damn simple LAN chips too but I couldn't swear if
it
was 1 or 2 chips or an exact price but I do remember thinking they were
pretty damn cheap. Could even have been surplus stuff though.

"The principal mark of genius is not perfection but originality, the
opening of new frontiers."
                                       -- Arthur Koestler

*^*^*^*
Michael McGlothlin <EMAIL:PROTECTED>
http://mlug.missouri.edu/~mogmios/projects/

On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Spurling, Shannon wrote:

>  Okay, I think I know what you are talking about, and it's not $1.00,
> it's around $8 (I think) in quantitys of 1000. I believe it is made by
> NEC, and it requires a MCU in order to work... A $10 PIC MCU is listed
> in the datasheet. When I first read the marketing blurb, I thought it
> was stand alone. All it does is create TCP packets from the data you
> send it. Now, I could be off on the manufacturer and price, I'm going
> off memory here, but I clearly remember the application note. It
> involved three other descrete components for the sample application,
in
> addition to the resistor capacitors and diodes needed. The three parts
> were the PIC, the TCP encoder/serial UART, and theMAX232 to provide
the
> 56K uplink. First off, no chip company makes a one chip ethernet
> encoder, because there are two seperate tasks to be done, and
depending
> on the application, they might be different. If a chip company makes a
> single chip ethernet solution, it's for a specific contracted short
run
> application. And it would probably be something based on combining
masks
> from their two comercial components that were used to prototype the
> application.
> So, first off, I'm not paying an increase of $20 a jug more for milk.
> And second, I'm not going to run a fiber pair or Cat5 to my groceries.
> The web enabled VCR would be fine, but isn't that a TVIO type
> appliance/service? Remember, who ever makes the web enabled
> entertainment components is going to fight furiously to make you use
> their data service. Remember the CueCat? If I buy Prairie Farms Milk,
> will it be compatable with the central dairy interface I got with my
> fridge? Something to think about. Besides, I don't want Evil Angelica
> hacking my fridge and spoiling my milk because they installed WINCE on
> it. It's just not needed!
> 
> Shannon 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael
> To: EMAIL:PROTECTED
> Sent: 12/2/01 3:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [MLUG - DISCUSSION] net-enabled microcontrollers for
> appliances, VCRs, stereos
> 
> > And where are they?  Who manufactures them?  I haven't seen any,
> > personally.  Show me a link to a datasheet, and maybe I'll believe
> > you.  And by the way, a network card is far less complex than an
> > embedded web server thing.  A NIC hooks right into the PCI bus,
which
> > already does most of the work for it.  A VCR neither has a PCI bus
nor
> > a CPU which can control the NIC.  You would have to put in an extra
> > microcontroller, program it
> 
> If I feel energetic I'll try to find my bookmark to the site that
sells
> them. I looked breifly but couldn't find it. Bookmarks are such a pain
> when you get hundreds or thousands. And the web servers are cheap
> because
> they only do what they have to.. essentially providing an http
interface
> to whatever data your gadget already provides. They are made only for
> embedded use. You couldn't run like Google off one. A couple different
> companies make flavors of these ultra-lite webservers now. Again if I
> feel
> motivated I'll look for them. I'm feeling lazy right now.
> 
> > Where have you seen those chips?  I really want to order a few if
they
> are 
> > that cheap.
> 
> The printed circuits on paper? They don't yet have a printed web
server
> that I know of but I think they would be pretty easy to do and are
bound
> to show up. Other circuits printed on paper get used in disposable
> places
> already though so we do know it works.
> 
> > Then why aren't there VCRs with network interfaces? The closest I've
> seen is 
> > a cable modem with a webserver.  But those things cost about two
times
> as 
> > much as a VCR, for "cheap" electronics.
> 
> VCR's suck and so do VCR makers? There might be a web-enabled VCR for
> all
> I know but I don't have one. Shouldn't be to hard to make though.
Price
> something is sold for has almost nothing to do with how much it cost
to
> make. Manufacturers often breif sales people that a given product is
> exactly the same between the cheap model and the expensive model
except
> the expensive model has a feature turned on. My favorite was a digital
> camera I usda sale.. hooking power to the cameras main IC at the right
> spot would let the camera double the resolution. Probably cost less
than
> a
> penny to activate per camera but they charged $100 more.
> 
> > I haven't seen a wired VCR yet - probably due to two reasons:
> > 1. The technology is not mainstream yet
> The technology is mainstream, products that use the technology are not
> mainstream yet. Companies don't release products the second a
technology
> is available.. they have to convince mgmt it's a good idea, do user
> studies, design, make, test, market, etc.
> 
> > 2. It's not cost-effective.
> *shrugs* It doesn't cost much. The cardboard box the units are shipped
> in
> probably cost as much.
> 
> > 3. Nobody wants them
> > I can't say that reason #3 is valid, since there would be at least
one
> model 
> > of a VCR that had it built in.  There isn't a single thing that does
> it and 
> > is mainstream.
> 
> Could be a reason. It isn't the type of feature that is likely to be
> well
> understood in most user studies. Anyway the VCR idea was just an
> example. Most people geeky enough for a web enabled VCR would probably
> want a TiVo or something. On the other hand multipurpose remotes are
> popular.. if devices shared a common interface to such remotes there
> could
> be a decent business in it.
> 
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