RE: [MLUG - DISCUSSION] net-enabled microcontrollers for appliances,VCRs, stereos

[Michael <EMAIL:PROTECTED>]

The one I'm thinking of isn't a PIC though I've seen that one too.I think
that one was on Slashdot. Dammit if I can find the bookmark I'll post it.
If not then ignore me as a clueless rant sucker if you like. I swear I've
seen at least two companies selling (and I assume making) web servers that
ran on one chip and cost just about $1 each. They were very simple devices
but still interesting. I think they did pretty much only convert data to
TCP packets as suitable from a webserver but umm what else would you have
an embedded webserver do? ;>

I've seen some pretty damn simple LAN chips too but I couldn't swear if it
was 1 or 2 chips or an exact price but I do remember thinking they were
pretty damn cheap. Could even have been surplus stuff though.

"The principal mark of genius is not perfection but originality, the
opening of new frontiers."
                                       -- Arthur Koestler

*^*^*^*
Michael McGlothlin <EMAIL:PROTECTED>
http://mlug.missouri.edu/~mogmios/projects/

On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Spurling, Shannon wrote:

>  Okay, I think I know what you are talking about, and it's not $1.00,
> it's around $8 (I think) in quantitys of 1000. I believe it is made by
> NEC, and it requires a MCU in order to work... A $10 PIC MCU is listed
> in the datasheet. When I first read the marketing blurb, I thought it
> was stand alone. All it does is create TCP packets from the data you
> send it. Now, I could be off on the manufacturer and price, I'm going
> off memory here, but I clearly remember the application note. It
> involved three other descrete components for the sample application, in
> addition to the resistor capacitors and diodes needed. The three parts
> were the PIC, the TCP encoder/serial UART, and theMAX232 to provide the
> 56K uplink. First off, no chip company makes a one chip ethernet
> encoder, because there are two seperate tasks to be done, and depending
> on the application, they might be different. If a chip company makes a
> single chip ethernet solution, it's for a specific contracted short run
> application. And it would probably be something based on combining masks
> from their two comercial components that were used to prototype the
> application.
> So, first off, I'm not paying an increase of $20 a jug more for milk.
> And second, I'm not going to run a fiber pair or Cat5 to my groceries.
> The web enabled VCR would be fine, but isn't that a TVIO type
> appliance/service? Remember, who ever makes the web enabled
> entertainment components is going to fight furiously to make you use
> their data service. Remember the CueCat? If I buy Prairie Farms Milk,
> will it be compatable with the central dairy interface I got with my
> fridge? Something to think about. Besides, I don't want Evil Angelica
> hacking my fridge and spoiling my milk because they installed WINCE on
> it. It's just not needed!
> 
> Shannon 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael
> To: EMAIL:PROTECTED
> Sent: 12/2/01 3:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [MLUG - DISCUSSION] net-enabled microcontrollers for
> appliances, VCRs, stereos
> 
> > And where are they?  Who manufactures them?  I haven't seen any,
> > personally.  Show me a link to a datasheet, and maybe I'll believe
> > you.  And by the way, a network card is far less complex than an
> > embedded web server thing.  A NIC hooks right into the PCI bus, which
> > already does most of the work for it.  A VCR neither has a PCI bus nor
> > a CPU which can control the NIC.  You would have to put in an extra
> > microcontroller, program it
> 
> If I feel energetic I'll try to find my bookmark to the site that sells
> them. I looked breifly but couldn't find it. Bookmarks are such a pain
> when you get hundreds or thousands. And the web servers are cheap
> because
> they only do what they have to.. essentially providing an http interface
> to whatever data your gadget already provides. They are made only for
> embedded use. You couldn't run like Google off one. A couple different
> companies make flavors of these ultra-lite webservers now. Again if I
> feel
> motivated I'll look for them. I'm feeling lazy right now.
> 
> > Where have you seen those chips?  I really want to order a few if they
> are 
> > that cheap.
> 
> The printed circuits on paper? They don't yet have a printed web server
> that I know of but I think they would be pretty easy to do and are bound
> to show up. Other circuits printed on paper get used in disposable
> places
> already though so we do know it works.
> 
> > Then why aren't there VCRs with network interfaces? The closest I've
> seen is 
> > a cable modem with a webserver.  But those things cost about two times
> as 
> > much as a VCR, for "cheap" electronics.
> 
> VCR's suck and so do VCR makers? There might be a web-enabled VCR for
> all
> I know but I don't have one. Shouldn't be to hard to make though. Price
> something is sold for has almost nothing to do with how much it cost to
> make. Manufacturers often breif sales people that a given product is
> exactly the same between the cheap model and the expensive model except
> the expensive model has a feature turned on. My favorite was a digital
> camera I usda sale.. hooking power to the cameras main IC at the right
> spot would let the camera double the resolution. Probably cost less than
> a
> penny to activate per camera but they charged $100 more.
> 
> > I haven't seen a wired VCR yet - probably due to two reasons:
> > 1. The technology is not mainstream yet
> The technology is mainstream, products that use the technology are not
> mainstream yet. Companies don't release products the second a technology
> is available.. they have to convince mgmt it's a good idea, do user
> studies, design, make, test, market, etc.
> 
> > 2. It's not cost-effective.
> *shrugs* It doesn't cost much. The cardboard box the units are shipped
> in
> probably cost as much.
> 
> > 3. Nobody wants them
> > I can't say that reason #3 is valid, since there would be at least one
> model 
> > of a VCR that had it built in.  There isn't a single thing that does
> it and 
> > is mainstream.
> 
> Could be a reason. It isn't the type of feature that is likely to be
> well
> understood in most user studies. Anyway the VCR idea was just an
> example. Most people geeky enough for a web enabled VCR would probably
> want a TiVo or something. On the other hand multipurpose remotes are
> popular.. if devices shared a common interface to such remotes there
> could
> be a decent business in it.
> 
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